Comments on: Tinker Bell, Pinochet and The Fairy Tale Miracle of Chile http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2/ Greg Palast, reporting for BBC, Harpers and more Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:47:41 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Laura http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2/comment-page-1/#comment-74424 Laura Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:18:55 +0000 http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2#comment-74424 Well said-there was no Friedman "miracle" in Chile in economics except in Friedmans mind and those that worked for/with him, notably the trash talk from Jose Pinera about how great it's gone which is simply mot true but people take him at his word. Repeat the "miracle" over and over and everyone believes it. The other miracle is that the Concertacion since Pinochet has been fiscally responsible and saved that copper money. Latin America has been beholden to the IMF and privatization pressure in the past but look who has paid off their IMF debt-maybe they are free at last. Well said-there was no Friedman "miracle" in Chile in economics except in Friedmans mind and those that worked for/with him, notably the trash talk from Jose Pinera about how great it's gone which is simply mot true but people take him at his word. Repeat the "miracle" over and over and everyone believes it. The other miracle is that the Concertacion since Pinochet has been fiscally responsible and saved that copper money. Latin America has been beholden to the IMF and privatization pressure in the past but look who has paid off their IMF debt-maybe they are free at last.

]]> By: Rad http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2/comment-page-1/#comment-73986 Rad Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:56:59 +0000 http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2#comment-73986 New Deal policies did not work that well. Remember the stock market went much lower AFTER the 1929 crash. In fact after crashing 50% in 1929 and then rallying another 50% quickly, from 1930-33 the stock market got crushed a whopping 90% of it's original value. That was well after government and Federal Reserve intervention. Many people do not realize that Herbert Hoover was quite the interventionist. He put in place wage and price fixes and all sorts of other stuff. Roosevelt just continued these policies and then some. No different that President Bush signing the Banker bailout only to have Obama sign another bailout (although that was called a "stimulus" plan). Not to mention we got involved in a world war that forced us into "manufacturing production-output mode". Even then it took 44 years for the stock market to regain the highs of 1929. I would suggest that you read up on the Depression of 1920. The one no one really talks about. Why? Well because the free market worked quite well. Astonishingly well. Yes we had a Federal Reserve then, but they were not involved in Open Market Operations until a few years later. you can watch Thomas Woods discuss this topic here. It is lengthy, but worth your time. All the best, Rad http://blog.mises.org/archives/010805.asp New Deal policies did not work that well. Remember the stock market went much lower AFTER the 1929 crash. In fact after crashing 50% in 1929 and then rallying another 50% quickly, from 1930-33 the stock market got crushed a whopping 90% of it's original value. That was well after government and Federal Reserve intervention. Many people do not realize that Herbert Hoover was quite the interventionist. He put in place wage and price fixes and all sorts of other stuff. Roosevelt just continued these policies and then some. No different that President Bush signing the Banker bailout only to have Obama sign another bailout (although that was called a "stimulus" plan).

Not to mention we got involved in a world war that forced us into "manufacturing production-output mode". Even then it took 44 years for the stock market to regain the highs of 1929.

I would suggest that you read up on the Depression of 1920. The one no one really talks about. Why? Well because the free market worked quite well. Astonishingly well. Yes we had a Federal Reserve then, but they were not involved in Open Market Operations until a few years later. you can watch Thomas Woods discuss this topic here. It is lengthy, but worth your time.

All the best,

Rad

http://blog.mises.org/archives/010805.asp

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2/comment-page-1/#comment-71082 Anonymous Thu, 24 Dec 2009 07:59:38 +0000 http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2#comment-71082 I wouldnt say that having a minimum wage restored (which will ultimately keep out more of the younger and less skilled workers, even though it will raise the salaries of the few), and restoring collective bargaining rights for unions could ever be considered a return of the socialist system before Pinochet. You also were as vague as you could possibly have been over the program to create 500,000 new jobs. You also ignore that there was an INTERNATIONAL financial crises during this time for all of Latin America. They were so deep in debt that they couldnt pay it off, and the whole of Latin America hit a crisis. Economies everywhere affect one another. This crisis was not caused by the Chicago Boys and it most certainly wasnt the result of a failure of free markets. However, because the Chile responded to the crises by keeping the free market reforms of the Chicago Boys with small exceptions of nationalization which were later taken away in the early nineties they were the first in the area to recover and they most certainly recovered the strongest. The government to this day remains among the least regulated in the world and are the highest performers in Latin America. Absolutely no serious economist would claim that it has been even remotely socialist for the past forty or fifty years. Hong Kong also has a strong economy and so does Singapore and both are rated the least regulated ecnonmies on earth. The only single negative thing which could be said about free market economies are that they have large inequalities in wealth, which are in themselves not that bad because to insist it should be some other way is to set a standard of living on someone and no one can be expected to do that unless they are overwhelmingly self rightous. Being that its obvious why things were bad for Chile during these times, and that they werent fixed due to socialism, I hope that by your determination maybe you will be able to find an instance somewhere in history where socialism saved laissez-faire. I seriously doubt it. How much have Obama's socialist reforms fixed America's economy thus far? I wouldnt say that having a minimum wage restored (which will ultimately keep out more of the younger and less skilled workers, even though it will raise the salaries of the few), and restoring collective bargaining rights for unions could ever be considered a return of the socialist system before Pinochet. You also were as vague as you could possibly have been over the program to create 500,000 new jobs. You also ignore that there was an INTERNATIONAL financial crises during this time for all of Latin America. They were so deep in debt that they couldnt pay it off, and the whole of Latin America hit a crisis. Economies everywhere affect one another. This crisis was not caused by the Chicago Boys and it most certainly wasnt the result of a failure of free markets. However, because the Chile responded to the crises by keeping the free market reforms of the Chicago Boys with small exceptions of nationalization which were later taken away in the early nineties they were the first in the area to recover and they most certainly recovered the strongest. The government to this day remains among the least regulated in the world and are the highest performers in Latin America. Absolutely no serious economist would claim that it has been even remotely socialist for the past forty or fifty years. Hong Kong also has a strong economy and so does Singapore and both are rated the least regulated ecnonmies on earth. The only single negative thing which could be said about free market economies are that they have large inequalities in wealth, which are in themselves not that bad because to insist it should be some other way is to set a standard of living on someone and no one can be expected to do that unless they are overwhelmingly self rightous. Being that its obvious why things were bad for Chile during these times, and that they werent fixed due to socialism, I hope that by your determination maybe you will be able to find an instance somewhere in history where socialism saved laissez-faire. I seriously doubt it. How much have Obama's socialist reforms fixed America's economy thus far?

]]> By: economist http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2/comment-page-1/#comment-70862 economist Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:06:10 +0000 http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2#comment-70862 This article shows a distressing ignorance of basic economics. If you are sufficiently literate, you should begin reading Hayek, Mises, Rothbard, Hazlitt, etc., to understand the shortcomings in an economic worldview that could produce an article so fundamentally misguided as this one. Apologies for the lack of detail, but those who are serious about getting to the root of the issues discussed will read and research sufficiently to understand why this is a fundamentally erroneous interpretation of fact and theory. Those who wish to continue believing what is convenient or what "feels good" will not change their minds no matter the arguments against their current views. Distressingly, this is the basic human condition...at least at the present stage of human evolution. This article shows a distressing ignorance of basic economics. If you are sufficiently literate, you should begin reading Hayek, Mises, Rothbard, Hazlitt, etc., to understand the shortcomings in an economic worldview that could produce an article so fundamentally misguided as this one. Apologies for the lack of detail, but those who are serious about getting to the root of the issues discussed will read and research sufficiently to understand why this is a fundamentally erroneous interpretation of fact and theory. Those who wish to continue believing what is convenient or what "feels good" will not change their minds no matter the arguments against their current views. Distressingly, this is the basic human condition...at least at the present stage of human evolution.

]]> By: Felipe http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2/comment-page-1/#comment-62979 Felipe Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:50:00 +0000 http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2#comment-62979 Intellectual dishonesty seems a hallmark of the left. Intellectual dishonesty seems a hallmark of the left.

]]> By: anne http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2/comment-page-1/#comment-56103 anne Thu, 18 Jun 2009 05:50:49 +0000 http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2#comment-56103 its a beautiful story its a beautiful story

]]> By: matt http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2/comment-page-1/#comment-32470 matt Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:39:26 +0000 http://www.gregpalast.com/tinker-bell-pinochet-and-the-fairy-tale-miracle-of-chile-2#comment-32470 so true so true

]]>