Obama Doesn't Sweat. He should.
Wednesday, September 3, 2008
by Greg Palast
Listen to the report on the Air America Radio's Thom Hartmann
In swing-state Colorado, the Republican Secretary of State conducted the biggest purge of voters in history, dumping a fifth of all registrations. Guess their color.
In swing-state Florida, the state is refusing to accept about 85,000 new registrations from voter drives – overwhelming Black voters.
In swing state New Mexico, HALF of the Democrats of Mora, a dirt poor and overwhelmingly Hispanic county, found their registrations disappeared this year, courtesy of a Republican voting contractor.
In swing states Ohio and Nevada, new federal law is knocking out tens of thousands of voters who lost their homes to foreclosure.
My investigations partner spoke directly to Barack Obama about it. (When your partner is Robert F. Kennedy Jr., candidates take your phone call.) The cool, cool Senator Obama told Kennedy he was “concerned” about the integrity of the vote in the Southwest in particular.
He’s concerned. I’m sweating.
It’s time SOMEBODY raised the alarm about these missing voters; not to save Obama’s candidacy – journalists should stay the heck away from partisan endorsements - but raise the alarm to save our sick democracy.
And that somebody is YOU. Joining with US, the Palast investigative team. Here’s how:
We have been offered an astonishing opportunity to place the Kennedy-Palast investigative findings on a national, prime-time, major-network television broadcast. Plus, separately, we have an extraordinary offer to create a series of reports for national network radio.
But guess what? The networks will NOT PAY for our public service reports. We have to raise the start-up funds in the next two weeks to film it, record it and get it on the airwaves.
WE need YOU to fund the reports, DISSEMINATE the findings as we post the print, audio and video on the web– and ACT on it.
So, for only the second time this year, I am asking each one of you to make a tax deductible donation to the non-profit, non-partisan Palast Investigative Fund of $500, $150 or $100.
Progressives have complained for years of no opportunity to get the hard, cold sweaty truth on the air. Well, put your money where your heart and soul is.
Donate at least $500, I’ll send you every book I’ve written and every film, signed.
Send $150 and I’ll send you as a gift, a copy of John Ennis' film Free For All, the brilliant and funny film about the Theft of Ohio. AND I'll send you, signed, a copy of my book, Armed Madhouse, plus a copy of the BBC/Democracy Now film investigations, The Election Files and a copy of the spoken word CD Live from the Armed Madhouse all signed.
Donate $100, and I’ll send you 3 copies, one signed to you, of “The Elections Files, “ the best of our BBC/Democracy Now films – including special never-broadcast interviews with Kennedy and fired prosecutor David Iglesias.
I know you’re ponying up for your favorite candidates. But what’s the point of winning folks' votes IF NO ONE COUNTS THEM?
Please make your donation – today. No corporation, no big foundation, is going to take on this emergency in our democracy. The election’s about to be stolen – for a third time. SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
Donate today (for $1,000 minimum, we’ll list you as a Producer of our next DVD, in gratitude). Why? Because the only way to get the vote-chewing cockroaches out of the voting machinery is to turn on the lights – tell the truth on them. On prime time.
After our team busted the story of Katherine Harris’ attack on innocent Black voters as “felons,” the NAACP sued and won back their rights. The truth CAN make the difference. Yes, we can. Indeed, we HAVE.
Think all votes should be counted in America? Then YOU stand up and be counted. Don’t expect networks or commercial sponsors to pay for your democracy. Feed the truth, donate $100 right now and pass on a copy of the Elections Files to your dippy cousin who thinks Kerry lost fair and square.
Donations from our prior and only request already paid for some of our filming in the Southwest. Don’t let this story be swept under the border.
If you want more information, go to GregPalast.com, or write me directly at GregPalast.com – and hit the button, “contact Greg.”
Pass this on!
**************************
Greg Palast is a Puffin Foundation Writing Fellow for Investigative Reporting at the Nation Institute, New York. Read and view his investigations for BBC Television at www.GregPalast.com. Support the investigation at www.PalastInvestigativeFund.org
Palast on the Thom Hartmann Show 7-29-08 [10:20m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download Why Doesn't Obama Sweat? [13:41m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download
Print This Post
Which major networks offered to run the report and when?
Shouldn't you include an option for those who want to donate $25? Many of us donate to lots of things and have kids in college, mortgages, and gas tanks to fill. I'm in for $25. And I bet you'll get a lot of responses that way.
Good luck.
You've done amazing investigative work. But with 3 months till the election there's no time to fundraise for a movie or TV program. Someone should be filing for restraining orders in those states on constitutional grounds. Is anything happening along those lines? I'd contribute to THAT effort. (And yours if there were more time.)
and where do you donate?
If we lived in a free country, this would shock me. I'm beyond shock. If the elite want McHitler to be president, it shall be.
Greg
And for those who actually get to vote, it would take fewer uncounted votes and switched votes than 2004 for McCain to steal it.
Rich
The 2008 Election Model
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x505995
Uncounted votes 1988-2994
http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=120&topic_id=3935
As you're a former statistics professor, you should like this:
Election Fraud Analysis: Confirmation of a Kerry Landslide
by TruthIsAll
http://www.geocities.com/electionmodel/FurtherConfirmationOfaKerryLandslide.htm
Introduction: To Believe Bush Won...
1. When Decided
2. Bush Approval Ratings
3. Pre-Election Polling I
4. Pre-Election Polling II
5. The Final 5 Million Recorded Votes
6. The Final Exit Poll: Forced to Match the Vote
7. Within Precinct Discrepancy
8. New Voters
9. Party ID
10. Gender
11. Implausible Gore Voter Defection
12. Voter Turnout
13. Urban Legend
14. Location Size
15. Sensitivity Analysis
16. Did Kerry Win 360 EV?
17. Election Simulation Analysis
18. Exit Poll Response Optimization
19. Uncounted and Switched Votes
20. Florida
21. Ohio
22. New York
Appendix
A. Election Model: Nov.1 Projection
B. Interactive Monte Carlo Simulation: Pre-election and Exit Polls
C. 1988-2004 Election Calculator: The True Vote
D. The 2000-2004 County Vote Database
E. Statistics and Probability: Mathematics of Polling
Kansas, Michigan and Louisiana are purging their voter lists, too.
Worse they are working in concert together -- illegally I might add.
http://www.alternet.org/democracy/92695/?page=entire
I imagine other states are doing likewise. I truly fear for our country.
This is alarming and frightening!
Please vote for Obama because he is the best candidate we have. Visit WhyObama08.org!
Don't you think it is time to take matters into our own hands.
What will it take for the American citizens to get mad enough to stop this d... lies and stealing our elections.
The corporate repubilcans have been doing this for our 12 years and no one cares enough to stop them..,
[...] Check out the full story here. [...]
Question: Have you guys explored in-kind donations of camera work, post-production/editing, etc.? Or just asked around for folks who are willing to donate time/effort? Sometimes that stuff is easier to get than fairly large sums of cash. Just a thought.
Jason
Hey Greg,
I'm sending you $100 because I support your work and I believe this issue is imperative to get to the bottom of (along with the parallel problem of electronic voting machines and proprietary software BS). I'd send you $1,000 if you'd ever publicly acknowledge the patent lie which is the official story of the 9/11 attacks; or if you'd set about investigating the available evidence which would send you down the path to this conclusion.
Best regards, and good luck,
Scott McKinsey
what date was this written? has the opportunity passed?
http://thelieshavenotimproved.blogspot.com/
will you accept a check of $!0 or $15? i'm on a fixed income but would like to contribute.
lori
I don't know why I feel surprised after reading that. Really messed up news.
Anyway Obama might want to donate some of his funds towards this, along with Kerry and other democrats in office who it really affects and can actually afford that. Asking for $100 is a little steep for me I was thinking about $5 but maybe thats to petty. Good luck though, and if you could use 5 let me know, jim in denver
Check's in the mail, or in the toobs. Get 'em.
Love your work. Cannot thank you enough.
"... raise the alarm to save our sick democracy."
Too late, Greg. Our democracy isn't sick -- it's dead. Bush and Cheney dealt it several mortal injuries. The Constitution has been overthrown.
A structural document that has been violated over and over again, in plain sight of legislators, news people, and the public, without challenge, has lost all credibility and can never command authority again. Why should anyone obey what is obviously a dead letter.
We are currently living under a sham government. If the ruling Boards of Directors install Barack Obama as President, he will take office, but nothing substantive will change.
If, on the other hand, the Owners back off and decide to keep the Republicans in control, with John McCain as President, he will take office, and of course nothing substantive will change.
I am a raging left-liberal. If given the chance to vote, I will happily cast my ballot for Barack Obama. But as GW Bush helpfully explained, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me... (long pause)... can't get fooled again."
I have a question.
Is a donation to a non-profit organization still tax deductable if the person receives a gift in return for his/her donation?
Dear Greg-
Is there any chance that Obama won't have the election stolen from him?
Is it time to pack the kids, pets, etc. and find another country to live in. What do you think?
Greg - If you are smart you will do what Obama has done. Ask for more "user-friendly" amounts. And you don't even need to offer incentives. Take me for instance. I was moved by your message and if you had asked for $10 I would have probably jumped right into it on impulse. I don't even give Obama $100. But over the last year I have given him about $350 in increments of $25.
I bet there are of lot of me out here.
Peace,
Jim Summers
[...] read more | digg story [...]
Hmmmm, sounds like KARMA to me...just like the votes in Michigan and Ohio weren't counted, because hey, it's the rules...I say let him sweat...
If I prefer donating by mail, what is the address?
Regards
Ruth Fischer
i don't care if he looses - he is undeserving to be president he is a phony i will not donate a dime. I AM HRC SUPPORTER AND WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM
I appreciate what you are doing however I can only afford to send you $50.00 for your work in progress. How shall I do this? via snail mail? I'll send a check if you give me your address.
mili rosenblatt
This is making me sick. If we let them steal another election, shame on us.
Thank you for your investigative reporting. I, like so many American, vacillate between feelings of helplessness and intense anger over the deterioration of our government. We ALL need to DO SOMETHING! Folks like you are so appreciated for your honor and your effort!
Dear Mr. Palast,
If you're concerned and sweating about what's happening to these purged voters, then I must ask if you noticed a thing about what happened to the one real grassroots candidate who didn't have any corporate sponsorship, not a single special interest funding him, but only real freedom-loving Americans?
A real American fighting for our Constitutional Rights, whom America wants. But bankers do not, well it's no wonder---real Americanism would not allow them to stranglehold our freedom and sovereignty.
Did you notice how Ron Paul ignited a wildfire in the grassroots of America without the media manipulation of McCain, Obama or H.Clinton? Yeah, he did it all on his own, with truth, integrity, courage...
"I know you’re ponying up for your favorite candidates. But what’s the point of winning folks' votes IF NO ONE COUNTS THEM?"
We know votes are being manipulated. There are groups to combat it.
But what's going to combat the manipulation of our liberties and restore America to the intentions of the Framers.
Not the mainstream candidates. Sorry.
ONLY RON PAUL.
Consider what YOU love about America.
It's time you wake up to reality, Obama is the corporate candidate this time around. The votes will not go in McCain's favor, no matter whose voting card isn't validated. So good luck pandhandling your lying candidate. In the end, the same agenda will be followed.
Maybe it's time for those in the media to wake up and warn the people of the terrible mistakes they are making by electing these corrupt people into office. It's 1890 all over again and the robber barons of today are manipulating the will of the people through the media and government.
We need to wake up and realize that Obama's "Change" is a fake change. A Sham. A Fraud. WAKE UP
[...] 19. People were obsessed with the secret story behind 9/11 while the GOP was openly trying to purge minorities from the voter roles. [...]
Maybe stating the obvious here, but Oprah Winfrey would be the person you'ld want to hit up for a donation. Me? I'm too poor unfortuantely.
Hi Greg,
I guess i'm asking the obvious question: why aren't people going to jail? Voter fraud is a heinous crime because it takes away the number one reason of expressed one's Americanism as a believer in democracy. Do we live in the third world? Does that make someone in government liable, accountable?
One thing, the players in our system are expanding and going international, along with their deep involvement and increased ownership of our economy. Can the Dutch, Chinese, Indians be brought in to monitor the elections like they do in other countries? Is that what this is coming to?
What will it take to sit these people down in a court of law?
Thanks,
Anthony
So what are you or anybody else doing about it besides complaining? Is the DNC taking any action?
I wish I could contribute (small business start-up has me strapped.) I too am sweating. The Repubs. have to try to steal this election. They have no choice, that is, no choice given their moral bearing. A Dem. Presidential victory along with the expected Congressional gains may in fact mark a virtual end to the Republican Party having any significant political influence for the next 40 years. I expect that a new big money party could very well emerge to replace the defunct Repubs. So, they indeed will try to steal it. In addition, there is going to be an 'October surprise.' I expect they will do something to have the country in some kind of new military crisis in the near future, possibly finding some excuse to mobilize U.S. forces on the ground in Georgia. If the polls show an Obama lead getting too far out of reach, it would not surprise me if they initiated hostilities against Iran. In any case, there will be something. Because, the Repubs. quite simply cannot permit the Federal Executive to pass out of their control. So far, Obama appears to be a man of integrity. If that's truly the case, he may be the kind of President with enough courage to bring someone like Patrick Fitzgerald into the position of Attorney General with the inauguration of investigations and indictments going deep an wide, meaning prison time for a lot of Republicans reaching up to and perhaps including the highest echelons of power: Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, Karl Rove; maybe even the hapless W. The Repubs., I believe, are in fact capable of more than stealing and other subterfuge. If ever there was a time in U.S. history, when a gang of immature and desperate politicians might be willing to risk everything and try to use force to stay in power, it is this present time, and this gang of lawless Republicans.
Hi Greg,
I'm a very active Democrat and a California CD 13 Obama Delegate.
I agree that we need to get this kind of information out to those same citizens who have apparently been sleeping through the last eight years. As I've wondered what it would take to wake them up,I've actually thought of a giant alarm clock!
I wish you well with your fund drive, but many of us are tapped out from giving to campaigna and the lovely economy Bush has given us.
So I'm writing, not to donate, but to suggest that you reach out to some of the many celebrities who support Obama. There were certainly many visible at the Democratic Convention. Perhaps they could even help you advertise the film's showing. I would think that with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as your partner, you could get their attention.
I do hope that somehow you can get this completed and aired.
Yes We Can!
Toni
Broadcast time is expensive so spend where you must (specifically in those Katrina areas). In other areas you can still get the message out. Radio and TV stations are required by law to allow Public Service Announcements to non-profit agencies. Some Outdoor companies may also agree to assist you. I would start there, where getting the word out is free. If you can write and produce a :15, :30 and a :60 TV and Radio PSA you can email it to the stations PSA director. From there, contact local radio talk show hosts and ask about getting on their shows to suggest it and suggest bringing in others for a panel discussion.
I strongly encourage you to have a conversation with influential urban radio programmers and station owners. The NAACP has strong ties to minority owned media in their states and could also assist in getting this message out. Target college stations and non profit stations hard since they will have more time to devote to PSA oriented campaigns.
If nothing else, send a message out. Encourage people to contact their local voting office and verify they're still on file. If people suspect there is a problem they may opt to stay home rather than wait in line and get turned away. The phone jam will certainly discourage sloppy voter purging.
Viral marketing is essential. Put that :60 commercial on YouTube and let the masses send it around in emails, post in blogs, post on social networking sites.
Just some few ideas before my marketing brain turns in for the night.
Have been getting your reports (and contributing) for at least 5 years and recently, somehow, slipped off your emailing list. Have just re-subscribed (and think the new newsletter format looks great.) Am I the only one?
If the above is true and authentic, then what is the difference between the USA and corrupt third world dictors' poll rigging machinery? If it is true then it is sad, because I have been following the USA elections process so that I can learn from and to propose reforms in our rotten polling systems. It sound to me like another Florida 2000
I'm going to do all I can to promote this issue of election fraud and your advocacy of it. The main reason I even know this issue exists is because of Greg Palast.
I'm very much "sweating it" that we're being set up for a big fall here. We need to do everything we can to get the word out.
What I would appreciate from Greg and this site, is a simple, clickable link that I can forward to people to tell them how to protect their voter rights directly. What can they do? Who can they call to make sure their voter registration accurate and valid and hasn't been challenged.
If there vote has been challenged, how do we fix it?
I've also asked the Obama campaign to do a PSA asking people to confirm their voter registrations.
Has anyone gotten information to John Kerry? He and Gore should be huge advocates on this issue yet I don't hear anything from them on it.
I'm willing to put calls into Kerrys office, I just feel I'm missing something because he hasn't addressed the issue of election fraud that so obviously cost him the election.
Sincerely,
Lance
let me know where to send the money - if we don't stand up this year, the democracy will be formerly known as the US of A!
This is one helluva country. Democracy is touted, but people are denied their right to vote. Voter fraud is cried, but election fraud is kept quiet. Bush cared more about purple fingers and Iraqis getting their right to vote, than protecting citizens of his own country right to vote. Fed up with the current Feds.
My god Greg,
Intellectually I know this is happening, but my heart hasn't wanted to believe it. Thanks for all your amazing work - I'm sending it to all my lists and hope it goes viral.
you need some kind of [donate now] hot button on this page. after submitting this comment, i will look for how to donate and assuming i can find my way, do so.
greg palast, you're the best!
--dpm
[...] http://www.gregpalast.com/obama-doesn%E2%80%99t-sweat-he-should/#comment-7058 [...]
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I have compiled similiar stories from other sites about other states, as well as this story, and put out the call to action.
We must react, and be swift and fair about our approach.
http://dandbpolitics.wordpress.com/
Thanks for doing this. I really can't thank you enough, but unfortunately, my thanks are all that I have to give you. The $$$$ just isn't there, I'm afraid. I do hope that others will be able to give you the money that you need, so that you will be able to get this so very important story out there, to the people who don't believe that this could ever happen in the USA. They will believe you and RFK. Thanks again ...
Dear Greg, I am a Vietnam combat vet and have almost given up hope on this country. Thank God for you! I am on a fixed income but will send you $200.00. Have you ever looked into the Deaths of Sen. Carnahan, Wellstone and of J.F.K. Jr.?? What are the odds of three prominent Democrats dying in the same way? Especially when the Senators deaths gave the Facists control of the Senate and Kennedys death eliminated a winnning presidential canidate? Would now be a good time to bring that into the open? Thank you again from the bottom of my heart. Tom Anderton
Please advise how I can donate. Please send me a link.
thank you
jackie
Hi Greg,
Thank you for putting this out, and thank you for your urgency! I can't afford $100, but I'm donating what I can afford--$25. I'll try to get three more donors to make it up.
Hell, I'm already talking to everyone I know, and especially trying to talk to the Obama campaign where I live and am volunteering. You know what the biggest problem seems to be? The Obama campaign is very smartly using young voters, and they are enthusiastic, determined, energetic, and convincing. BUT their biggest positive for the campaign--that they have not yet gained any cynicism about the voting process--is ALSO their worst negative for actually getting the votes to count.
I live in Oregon, and I feel strongly that our election system is pretty intact and not rigged--not that the Repubs wouldn't try, but that the rest of us watch like a hawk.
Since we vote by mail, and since our ballots will go out to people around the third week of October, I am trying to convince the local Obama campaign that it would be money well spent to get as many Oregonians as possible to vote early and then pay for our plane tickets to swing states where vote theft is occurring, along with training by you on how we can best help.
Will you pass this on to the Obama campaign, too?
Thank you for trying to help save us.
Fiora Starchild-Wolf
Green/Democratic Alliance
Eugene, OR
This feels like a real national emergency. Behind you all the way!
Greg Robert! Please--We could lose this thing- BARACK HAS LOADS OF CHARISMA - BRING IT OUT ON SCREEN. HE DOESN'T COME OFF SERIOUS- LEAVE THAT FOR THE DEBATES BUT IN THE ADS. LET HIM SHINE
AMERICANS WILL VOTE FOR A BLACK MAN AMERICANS IS ALREADY PRIMED TO ACCEPT GREAT BLACK BASKETBALL STARS,GREAT FOOTBALL STARS, GREAT ROCK STARS AND FILM PERSONALITIES. BUILD ON THAT!!! SHOW BARACK SHOOTING BASKETS, SINGING PLAYING DANCING, FOOTBALL
WHATEVER -- CLINTON PLAYED THE SAXAPHONE- . AMERICANS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY IN ALL TYPES OF UNSUSPECTING PLACES WILL BE MESMERIZED INTO PULLING THAT LEVER FOR OBAMA - IT'LL BE AN EMOTIONAL RESPONSE -THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO STOP THEMSELVES. ALL THE STUFF AMERICANS HAVE BEEN WATCHING FOR 30 40 YEARS.
LET HIS GREAT ATTRACTIVE PERSONALITY SHINE THROUGH THAT SCREEN ----
-----------------------WIN WITH BLACK CHARISMA-----------------------
Please for the sake of the country! linda Krausen
- -----
Greg - I just sent you a Grand.
And Don't Wait until it's finished -- send what you have to all the 'netroots! Now. They will help you.
Contact me if you need some tips re: African-American and other blogs.
Tama
Dear Greg Palast,
Sorry, I'm not a donor nor American but I believe in your defense of one person one vote, a basic of democracy. I know you are well aware of unprincipled politics in my country, by your (great - and illuminating) book: The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. There, your sting on New Labour earned you a ridiculous discrediting that Private Eye satirised: greatly amusing.
No doubt sympathy is cheap but I have to comment on how hard you worked on exposing fraud in the 2000 Presidential election, with no benefit to yourself. And all Al Gore could do was be "despicably gracious" as you put it. Not that I doubt he deserved his consolation Nobel prize for An Inconvenient Truth - but democrats know it is not the only inconvenient truth that needs to be addressed for the well-being of all.
I think politics has become so reactionary against democracy, that the basic case may have to be made all over again.
On my website about Democracy Science, which is what I'm trying to tell you about, much of it is about promoting or progressing democracy with an all-purpose electoral system that meets the standards of scientific method.
And also the need for second chamber representation of all occupations for Equality of Lobbying. The second chamber check of economic experience on the first chamber of political laws is the way science works by checking theory with practise.
This is just to give an idea of democratic progress that needs to be made, instead of always having to be on the defensive against reactionaries destroying what little democracy we have.
Thankyou for reading this.
[...] fumbled–election, though to his credit, Obama seems to have a better handle on the issue of electoral integritythan previous candidates. He’s fighting back through public lawsuits and other [...]
WHERE DO I SEND MY CHECK?????
This is the October surprise!
damn it. I've been warning people that Rove and the ususal suspects are "too cool" this time. They are openly criticzing McCain and casually deflecting attention from the left. This behavior had me convinced that voter fraud was upon us. I was wrong in concentrating on DieBold software fixing.
Nope, they just quietly used inside clout to mislead registrars into cancelling new young and democratic voters!!!
It seems so late to correct. GOD SAVE US!!!
I, like so many others that I've read about and talked to, am sick to my stomach with the destruction of our nation's "political process", if it ever was one. These people that make up the constituency of cheaters, liars, and vote fixing will do anything to repeat the whole Bush episode in 2000. It seems that the only thing that these types of people will listen to is revolution. Yes, I said it! All out, gun slinging, bomb dropping, throat cutting civil war. This seems to be what they desire. Obviously, if they think that the rest of the masses are not going to be moved to this point eventually, then they are not thinking at all. Do the math. Once every one realizes that there is no longer diplomacy, rules or sense of fair play, then we will begin to see a state of lawlessness not unlike what we see in the papers every day. Explosions every where, people doing the unthinkable to one another. Look at the middle east, it is where we are headed. This is how the masses of people are feeling and what they are about ready to do to exact some sense of fairness. Especially once they become aware of the illnumiatis' ultimate plan of reducing the world's population through the devaluation of our food; Thus weakening our immune systems so that we seem to suddenly die off (thinking that it's God's plan) and not knowing that it is a function of gradually giving up our rights as responses to these contrived fear dramas planned, played out, and exacted by the very group that is currently deciding things. Just like 911. Just like what we will see more of in the near future!
Maybe the lists are being purged brcause Acorn and the like are registering Mickey Mouse? There was post earlier saying Republicans have been doing this for 12 years? Clinton won 12 years ago.... um- du-uh.
Nothing wrong with this, at all, people should get it more.
It sounds like you're creating problems yourself by trying to solve this issue instead of looking at why their is a problem in the first place.